Jesus didn't speak to nations and talk about countries fighting, He spoke only of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus was explicit in what the actions of those who would align themselves with that kingdom should look like. Jesus wasn't at all concerned with what nations would do, but what His followers would do. Jesus wants us to identify ourselves as followers of Him more than patriots of any nation that will pass away. He knew and told us that fighting between nations would happen, but never gives us any reason to think we should join in with it (Matthew 24:6-7). Jesus may not come right out and say nations should not war against one another, but how in looking at the whole of Scripture can anyone say (with the exception of explicit instruction from the Almighty to the Biblical nation of Israel), "God would want us to fight wars". America is not Israel. Even the borders of political Israel are not the place to find all of God's people. The Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus spoke of is not bound my physical borders. Romans 10:12, For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who calls on him. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved". Everyone has the potential to be a brother or sister, so how then can we war with them?
I'm glad America isn't Israel. I like Palestinians.
I think you bring up some excellent points and I can't say that I disagree with any of them.
Our youngest and our brightest Christians are arguing a very valid point: that Jesus' kingdom is a kingdom of peace where wars between people and God and people and people come to an end under the fabulous reconciliatory love of the Holy Spirit and the righteous judgement of the Father through Christ's atonement (Rom. 3-5).
With this I wholeheartedly agree. However, I think that one of the frustrating things in all of this for me is that is that our en vogue (and decidedly biblical) stance against war comes during a time when secular culture also has taken a stance against war, and particularly a Christian president advocating and purportedly lying his way into international conflict and scorn. Is it not easy to champion a biblical cause (peace) that coincidentally coincides with a pagan society that champions peace as well (but from a political/faux moral perspective)?
Where were we, where was our championed biblical cause when babies were (and are) dying before reaching their first breath or God's created air? I'd say that the volume of our Truthful rebellion was shamefully muted by our fears of the reaction of a culture that was moving furiously away from such "outdated moral" platforms. Simply put, it just wasn't popular, nor is it still popular, to oppose abortion? To quote Mother Teresa again, "For if a mother can kill her own child in her own womb, then what is left for you and I? To kill each other." I prefer this anti-war argument over many that I hear today.
And what can I say about the way that we (and when I say we I am referring to the new generation of thinking Christians between 20 and 35) interact both philosophically and practically with the gay/lesbian community? I believe that our pursuit to love has become a pursuit of a love that is strangely unbiblical, a love without ethic. I wrote some words on this in James' blog. We defend opposition of war with a shout of fervor, yet where are those shouts when societies and states fight for same-sex marriage? Is not heterosexual marriage as explicit a biblical mandate as peace, and is it not an equally dangerous enemy of a peaceful and prosperous Kingdom society?
There is no courage in a Christian community that defends a biblical principal when it does not face opposition from those unacquainted with God's truth. The full event, the full revelation of God's community on earth is one that will, in the end, beg the ire of the surrounding lost world. Bellowing against abortion and gay marriage will not befriend the cozy affirmations of our contemporaries like it does now. Rather, we will go from intelligent thinkers to close-minded antagonists in the eyes of the world, the same eyes that embrace us in the contemporary struggle against our war in Iraq.
My question to my community is this: will you stand with me when what we say is met with anger and insult or will we jettison our firm and clear truth for fuzzy, nebulous concepts like "love" and "incarnational relevance"?
I think that, at times, we use those excuses to jailbreak from the conflict and hatred that Jesus promised we would face as we pass through a world that, at its very core, absolutely resents Him.
i absolutely agree. this generation of Christians only wants to stand up and fight for biblical principles when its not totally radical, when it won't seem completely foolish.
but that seems incredibly wrong to me. that sounds nothing like the call of Christ to me. following Jesus has to mean pissing people off to the point of them wanting us dead, because that's what they did to Jesus. as followers of Christ, who we are inherently (because of the Holy Spirit), is in direct opposition to who the world is. we have all at some point been enemies of God, children of wrath, but now we are ambassadors, children of God, coheirs with Christ, so there must be a distinction in the way we live our lives, not only in action but in motivation. it is easier in this world to be an enemy of God, but the call of Christ is radical and it has to be in every area of life. we have to live it out in all things, not just what is culturally “en vogue”. so yes, we must care as much about abortion and gay marriage as we do about peace. but i can’t imagine that caring about abortion negates the importance of peace.
also, though peace may be all the rage in secular settings from within evangelical circles its nearly blasphemous to question the decisions of a “Christian” president. within the church, at least from my small perspective, the just war doctrine is viewed as the only necessary doctrine on war. i think it is required to call the church to live like the church, to do things the way Jesus told us to and that includes peace and gay marriage.
i am not say that america should not war, i wish that it mattered, but it doesn’t. america is not a Christian nation, it just isn’t, so the call isn’t for america to start acting more like Jesus, but for believers to start living the life they are called to. we are called to it by Christ under the authority of the Father and it is lived out only by the power of the Holy Spirit. so america’s foreign policy is not what i care to speak to, but the church. and I am convinced the church also needs to stand its ground on all issues. it has to be important that there is a biblical perspective on nonviolence within the church in the same way that it has to be important that there are biblical perspectives on abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, poverty, etc.
it seems necessary that we as believers care about the things God cares about. so we must know what He cares about and live like it.
we must care equally about the widows and orphans and lepers and sinners, because that's what we were and now we are set free.
we must bring freedom to the captives. just like freedom was brought to us while we were captives.
5 comments:
On the flip side, can you show me where Jesus forbids nations from warring against each other?
By the way, I really like Sufjan Steven's rendition of Come Thou Fount too...my favorite arrangement for my favorite hymn.
Jesus didn't speak to nations and talk about countries fighting, He spoke only of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus was explicit in what the actions of those who would align themselves with that kingdom should look like. Jesus wasn't at all concerned with what nations would do, but what His followers would do. Jesus wants us to identify ourselves as followers of Him more than patriots of any nation that will pass away. He knew and told us that fighting between nations would happen, but never gives us any reason to think we should join in with it (Matthew 24:6-7). Jesus may not come right out and say nations should not war against one another, but how in looking at the whole of Scripture can anyone say (with the exception of explicit instruction from the Almighty to the Biblical nation of Israel), "God would want us to fight wars".
America is not Israel.
Even the borders of political Israel are not the place to find all of God's people. The Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus spoke of is not bound my physical borders. Romans 10:12, For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who calls on him. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved". Everyone has the potential to be a brother or sister, so how then can we war with them?
I'm glad America isn't Israel. I like Palestinians.
I think you bring up some excellent points and I can't say that I disagree with any of them.
Our youngest and our brightest Christians are arguing a very valid point: that Jesus' kingdom is a kingdom of peace where wars between people and God and people and people come to an end under the fabulous reconciliatory love of the Holy Spirit and the righteous judgement of the Father through Christ's atonement (Rom. 3-5).
With this I wholeheartedly agree. However, I think that one of the frustrating things in all of this for me is that is that our en vogue (and decidedly biblical) stance against war comes during a time when secular culture also has taken a stance against war, and particularly a Christian president advocating and purportedly lying his way into international conflict and scorn. Is it not easy to champion a biblical cause (peace) that coincidentally coincides with a pagan society that champions peace as well (but from a political/faux moral perspective)?
Where were we, where was our championed biblical cause when babies were (and are) dying before reaching their first breath or God's created air? I'd say that the volume of our Truthful rebellion was shamefully muted by our fears of the reaction of a culture that was moving furiously away from such "outdated moral" platforms. Simply put, it just wasn't popular, nor is it still popular, to oppose abortion? To quote Mother Teresa again, "For if a mother can kill her own child in her own womb, then what is left for you and I? To kill each other."
I prefer this anti-war argument over many that I hear today.
And what can I say about the way that we (and when I say we I am referring to the new generation of thinking Christians between 20 and 35) interact both philosophically and practically with the gay/lesbian community? I believe that our pursuit to love has become a pursuit of a love that is strangely unbiblical, a love without ethic. I wrote some words on this in James' blog. We defend opposition of war with a shout of fervor, yet where are those shouts when societies and states fight for same-sex marriage? Is not heterosexual marriage as explicit a biblical mandate as peace, and is it not an equally dangerous enemy of a peaceful and prosperous Kingdom society?
There is no courage in a Christian community that defends a biblical principal when it does not face opposition from those unacquainted with God's truth. The full event, the full revelation of God's community on earth is one that will, in the end, beg the ire of the surrounding lost world. Bellowing against abortion and gay marriage will not befriend the cozy affirmations of our contemporaries like it does now. Rather, we will go from intelligent thinkers to close-minded antagonists in the eyes of the world, the same eyes that embrace us in the contemporary struggle against our war in Iraq.
My question to my community is this: will you stand with me when what we say is met with anger and insult or will we jettison our firm and clear truth for fuzzy, nebulous concepts like "love" and "incarnational relevance"?
I think that, at times, we use those excuses to jailbreak from the conflict and hatred that Jesus promised we would face as we pass through a world that, at its very core, absolutely resents Him.
i absolutely agree. this generation of Christians only wants to stand up and fight for biblical principles when its not totally radical, when it won't seem completely foolish.
but that seems incredibly wrong to me. that sounds nothing like the call of Christ to me. following Jesus has to mean pissing people off to the point of them wanting us dead, because that's what they did to Jesus. as followers of Christ, who we are inherently (because of the Holy Spirit), is in direct opposition to who the world is. we have all at some point been enemies of God, children of wrath, but now we are ambassadors, children of God, coheirs with Christ, so there must be a distinction in the way we live our lives, not only in action but in motivation. it is easier in this world to be an enemy of God, but the call of Christ is radical and it has to be in every area of life. we have to live it out in all things, not just what is culturally “en vogue”. so yes, we must care as much about abortion and gay marriage as we do about peace. but i can’t imagine that caring about abortion negates the importance of peace.
also, though peace may be all the rage in secular settings from within evangelical circles its nearly blasphemous to question the decisions of a “Christian” president. within the church, at least from my small perspective, the just war doctrine is viewed as the only necessary doctrine on war. i think it is required to call the church to live like the church, to do things the way Jesus told us to and that includes peace and gay marriage.
i am not say that america should not war, i wish that it mattered, but it doesn’t. america is not a Christian nation, it just isn’t, so the call isn’t for america to start acting more like Jesus, but for believers to start living the life they are called to. we are called to it by Christ under the authority of the Father and it is lived out only by the power of the Holy Spirit. so america’s foreign policy is not what i care to speak to, but the church. and I am convinced the church also needs to stand its ground on all issues. it has to be important that there is a biblical perspective on nonviolence within the church in the same way that it has to be important that there are biblical perspectives on abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, poverty, etc.
it seems necessary that we as believers care about the things God cares about. so we must know what He cares about and live like it.
we must care equally about the widows and orphans and lepers and sinners, because that's what we were and now we are set free.
we must bring freedom to the captives. just like freedom was brought to us while we were captives.
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